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I used to hate them because of their obnoxious fanbase, and how they made the band sound pretentious as all fuck. Then I did some digging from what the members actually say, and found out two things:

A: They like making shit up, because they know their fans are like that
B: What the fans say, and what the band actually says are two completely different stories.

Regarding the latter, I found out why they have a sort of unusual stage placement of the band members, and the fans said "it's like super deep Aztec art mythology, because they're so deeeep". Then in an interview they said "oh yeah, Maynard hears himself better in the back while the other guys are formed like that for eye contact. Cuz you know, sometimes we're playing in different time signatures, so it helps us stay in time with each other."

(01-24-2016, 10:41 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]I used to hate them because of their obnoxious fanbase, and how they made the band sound pretentious as all fuck. Then I did some digging from what the members actually say, and found out two things:

A: They like making shit up, because they know their fans are like that
B: What the fans say, and what the band actually says are two completely different stories.

Regarding the latter, I found out why they have a sort of unusual stage placement of the band members, and the fans said "it's like super deep Aztec art mythology, because they're so deeeep". Then in an interview they said "oh yeah, Maynard hears himself better in the back while the other guys are formed like that for eye contact. Cuz you know, sometimes we're playing in different time signatures, so it helps us stay in time with each other."

I will say they have one of the worst fanbases imaginable. Maynard went on record and called all of those fanatics retards I think I've read. It's music. Music to enjoy. The band's name is a joke ffs.

Yeah, I love reading youtube comments with people having an intellectual jerkfest with who can interpret Maynard's lyrics the bestest.

Also the fans like the blow out how technical the band is. If you've never heard the song Lateralus before (or just don't play any instruments), it sounds super technical on paper. Woah, counterpoint, polyrhythms, descending time signatures, fibonacci sequence? Holy SHIT! Unless you're a drummer, their songs aren't hard to play at all, and you can pretty much take any song in existence and talk about the music theory and make it sound more complicated than it really is.

I enjoy and appreciate the technical stuff going in the background as much as the next music nerd, but hearing people blowing stuff out of proportion isn't cool. Especially that fibonacci sequence bullshit. All they use it for is for the syllables in the verse.

(01-24-2016, 10:57 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Also the fans like the blow out how technical the band is. 

That always ticked me off. I'm a big Proghead, so I know complex. Tool is not complex. People who insist such need to listen to some actual prog. Tool is basically pseudo-prog.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy listening to Tool sometimes. But don't make it more than it is, folks.

They're more prog than other alt metal bands and have elements of prog.

(01-25-2016, 05:33 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]They're more prog than other alt metal bands and have elements of prog.

Yes, but Prog always had a certain feel to it that Tool lacks. The '70s prog bands that defined Prog Rock and helped define Prog Metal (because Prog Metal started in the '80s and was directly inspired by the '70s Prog groups) always had a complexity of composition that Tool tends to lack. A lot of Tool riffs are like 2 or 3 power chord riffs. That's fine, but it's not complex...meaning not very Prog. Compare Tool's compositions to groups like Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, & ELP (Emerson, Lake, & Palmer). Those groups were inspired a lot by classical music compositions. To me, Tool sounds very derivative by comparison. Derivative is fine, but Prog doesn't really tend to be derivative in general.

But since they do have elements, that's why I say pseudo-prog. Elements of prog isn't enough to be fully prog. It's like how a comedy for little girls may not be considered a shojo show, even though there may be similar elements in both.

Well shojo is just a manga target demographic, so it's more "random" than say a music genre (or genre in general), and the demographic is entirely based on what the magazine labels itself as. Which is entirely different from a genre where their actual attributes determine what they closely resemble.

I think they're kind of a weird in between genre, because they have elements of one genre, and one of another without being entirely either. Kind of like how many bands in that era that came out of the alternative scene didn't really fit a specific category. Some songs of theirs will be hella proggy, while others are just straight up alt-metal, then there's the goofy ones that are a mix of both. Compare Undertow to Lateralus.

Also regarding Tool's technical aspects, it's more technical in the rhythm aspect rather than the overall harmonic aspect. It's like how math rock is known for their complex time signatures, so you get ones that are blindingly obvious like most TTNG songs where there's crazy ass chord and rhythm changes, whereas you have other math rock bands like Slint and American Football where they're similar to Tool in which the chord changes are very simple, but the theory behind the rhythm is more technical. So while the guitar changes chords slowly or very minimally, it's still playing in alternating rhythms of 5/4 and 7/4 and the bassist is playing a counterpoint in 4/4 time.

Also they have thematic lyrics like how other prog bands are and can have lengthy passages, so that's why they're considered prog.

(01-25-2016, 07:12 PM)Grungie Wrote: [ -> ]Well shojo is just a manga target demographic, so it's more "random" than say a music genre (or genre in general), and the demographic is entirely based on what the magazine labels itself as. Which is entirely different from a genre where their actual attributes determine what they closely resemble.

True. I was just kind of making a "just because it has these things, it may not be that" comparison. For instance, no one is going to call a Western comedy targeted towards young girls "shojo", even though it shares similarity with comedy shojo shows in some ways.

Quote:I think they're kind of a weird in between genre, because they have elements of one genre, and one of another without being entirely either. 

Yeah, makes sense to me. It's just kind of silly that people try to label them as one or the other.

Quote:So while the guitar changes chords slowly or very minimally, it's still playing in alternating rhythms of 5/4 and 7/4 and the bassist is playing a counterpoint in 4/4 time. 

[snip]

Also they have thematic lyrics like how other prog bands are and can have lengthy passages, so that's why they're considered prog.

Yeah, but while these are elements of prog, those elements don't prog make. Like you said, they're kind of in a weird, in-between spot. Because of that, I don't think you can stick them into Prog. People like to, because it puts them in with all the Prog bands. But they don't really fit, as there's enough differences to make them stick out.

That's why they're labeled as both alt metal and prog metal. Like how American Football is labels both math rock and emo

Eh, I guess. It's a medium ground that works, I suppose.